由“人山人海”来看 mountain & sea

fellboy · 发表于 2017-10-1 17:36:47

本帖最后由 fellboy 于 2017-10-10 22:14 编辑

首先，祝大家国庆、中秋快乐。
每逢国庆这样的新闻总会如期而至：国庆7.1亿人次出游，我堵在这儿你在哪？
这让我立马想到“人山人海”，曾经会开玩笑说成 "People Mountain, People Sea"，不过好像还真没深究过这当中 mountain 和 sea 的用法。

mountain in OALD 8
~ of sth (informal) a very large amount or number of sth 许多；大量
◆ a mountain of work 大量的工作
◆ We made mountains of sandwiches. 我们做了一大堆三明治。
◆ the problem of Europe's butter mountain (= the large amount of butter that has to be stored because it is not needed) 欧洲的黄油过剩问题

从 mountain 的英文解释当中也不难看出，它当作计量词的时候后面既可以跟可数名词也可以跟不可数名词。

sea in OALD 8
[sing.]~ of sth a large amount of sth that stretches over a wide area 大量；茫茫一片
◆ He looked down at the sea of smiling faces before him. 他看着眼前这笑脸的海洋。

同样，从 sea 的英文解释可以看出，当 sea 作为计量词的时候，其后应该是用不可数名词才对（以往对 amount 的用法的了解，好像其后面确实应该加不可数名词），但是在例句当中却用了 faces 这个可数名词的复数。

接着我查了 sea 在各种词典下的解释，如下：

[count noun] figurative a vast expanse or quantity of something 〈喻〉广大; 众多 ——《新牛津》

[N-SING 单数名词] 大量;茫茫一片；A sea of people or things is a very large number of them together. ——《柯林斯》

sea of sth: a very large number of people or things that look all similar 大量某物，一大片某物 ——《朗文》

a sea of sth: a large amount or number of something 很多；大量 ——《剑桥》

贴主注：和《牛八》mountain 的英文解释差一个 very。

Figurative. an overwhelming amount or number —— World Book

something likened to the sea especially in vastness ——《韦氏》

贴主注：韦氏好像跟其他家就是不太一样哦，哈哈。

A vast or overwhelming quantity or mass (of); a large level tract or expanse (of some material substance or aggregate of objects). ——《牛津英语大词典（简编本）》

···
以上，我觉得完全可以得出 sea 作为计量词的时候应该和 mountain 的用法是一样的，即既可以加可数名词也可以加不可数名词。

理所当然地，接下来要看看自己是不是对 amount 这个单词的用法有“误会”。
在 Longman Collocations Dictionary and Thesaurus 当中写道：

Amount or quantity?
You often use amount about things that you cannot measure or count.
◆ She has a tremendous amount of confidence.
You use quantity about things you can measure or count:
◆ The plant produces large quantities of seeds.
You can also use amount in the same way:
◆ The plant produces a large amount of seeds.

贴主其实现在已经凌乱了，记得初中老师天天强调的是：quantity 可数/不可数都可以，amount 只有不可数哇。
在Collins Thesaurus of the English Language 当中写道：

Although it is common to use a plural noun after amount of, for example in the amount of people and the amount of goods, this should be avoided. Preferred alternatives would be to use quantity, as in the quantity of people, or number, as in the number of goods.

在 M-W 当中有：

Number is regularly used with count nouns
◆ a large number of mistakes
◆ any number of times
while amount is mainly used with mass nouns
◆ annual amount of rainfall
◆ a substantial amount of money.
The use of amount with count nouns has been frequently criticized; it usually occurs when the number of things is thought of as a mass or collection
◆ glad to furnish any amount of black pebbles — New Yorker
◆ a substantial amount of film offers — Lily Tomlin
or when money is involved
◆ a substantial amount of loans — E. R. Black.

甚至还有发现 amount 后面加上一个单数名词：
[C] mass~ (of sth) a large amount of a substance that does not have a definite shape or form 团；块；堆 —— mass in OALD 8

···

所以，回到最开始的问题：
① “人山人海”怎么说？详见：http://language.chinadaily.com.cn/2017-10/10/content_33064740.htm
再者，
② 对于 quantity, amount, ··· 这些计量词到底该怎么用呢？
③ 如若按照大部分词典所说，amount 多用于不可数名词。那么在《牛八》当中，对于我摘出的单词的英语释义中的 amount，是否不妥呢？

deeke · 发表于 2017-10-2 02:08:49

本帖最后由 deeke 于 2017-10-2 02:16 编辑

人山人海
multitude; vast crowd CC-CEDICT
oceans of people ABC
huge crowds of people; a sea of people [faces]; the sea of humanity (in a crowd) hanyinda
huge crowds of people MS Bing

fellboy · 发表于 2017-10-2 09:03:54

deeke 发表于 2017-10-2 02:08
人山人海
multitude; vast crowd CC-CEDICT
oceans of people ABC

那另外两个问题呢？

Oeasy · 发表于 2017-10-3 09:46:58

① ”人山人海“的英文表达，可以全文搜索下英汉（双解）词典。
《牛津高阶英汉双解词典》（第 8 版）有 3 处。
>**capacity**
They played to a capacity crowd (= one that filled all the space or seats). 他们给人山人海的观众表演。
**million**
There were millions of people there. 那里人山人海。
**zillion**
There were zillions of people there. 那里人山人海。

---

② 《张道真实用英语语法（最新版）》（https://www.amazon.cn/dp/B00G1VRNOS/ ）专门有一节讲量词，具体到个别词，那就只有多查多用了，列出来干巴巴的用法也没人看。
>6.4　量　词
6.4.1　量词范围
量词（Quantifiers）不是一种词类，而是许多与数量有关的词和短语，它们包含：
1) 许多与数量有关的代词和限定词，如some，any，much，many等。
2) 各种数词，如two，half，a third，80%等。
3) 名词和of构成的表数量的短语，如a lot of，plenty of等。
4) 某些与数量有关的形容词，如enough，whole，half等。
5) 某些与数量有关的名词，如feet，miles，years，dozen等。
6) 某些与数量有关的合成词，如a five-dollar bill，a 6-page summary等。
7) 某些与数量有关词组的所有格，如two months' stay，four weeks' notice等。
下面将简要地加以处理。
……

---

③ 具体到 amount of 后面跟可数还是不可数，这又是 descriptive、prescriptive 之争了。
MWALED 的 amount 条 usage 栏目里说得很清楚了 http://www.learnersdictionary.com/definition/amount 。
> Amount is chiefly used with noncount nouns.
» He lost a large amount of money.
» a minimum amount of effort
» They provided only a small amount of information.
It is also sometimes used with plural count nouns, but this use is often criticized as an error.
» There were a large amount of mistakes.
Number is the usual word in such contexts.
» a large number of mistakes
» an increasing number of problems

LDOCE6 http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/carload
> the amount of people or things a car can hold

http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/dregs
>a small amount of a drink, sometimes with bits in, left at the bottom of a cup, glass, or bottle
……
LDOCE 里的释义里大量出现了：
the amount of a substance contained in a liquid
the amount of a substance that people eat, drink, smoke etc
a small amount of a substance or of something that is not a physical object
the amount of a substance that is contained in something, especially food or drink
a small amount of a feeling
a small amount of a particular colour
a small amount of a strong alcoholic drink
a very small amount of a quality, emotion, substance etc that is difficult to see or notice
the amount of profits, crops etc that something produces
……

我举个句子。
>There is a *water* in “Chopping onions makes my eyes water. ”

这里的 water 不是水，是说 water 这个词、这个概念，所以前面用个 a 是没有问题的。

同样，就算规定 the amount of 后面跟不可数名词。
the amount of a substance (-> the amount of water, water is a substance)
a small amount of a feeling
这种也是可以的。

另外，化学里“物质的量”对应英文是 amount of substance （https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amount_of_substance ）
……

nnyyyy · 发表于 2017-10-12 14:21:29

huge crowds of people比较接受这个用法

yhemusa · 发表于 2017-10-24 01:20:07

很好的题目

alfa · 发表于 2017-10-29 12:51:12

突发奇想，这种说法用多了，以后会不会被native speakers接受呢（好像不大可能）

mrli86a · 发表于 2017-11-4 23:26:44

语言一直在融合，以前有，以后也会有

sunny-nkh · 发表于 2017-11-5 00:27:27

中外所见略同呢。。。

huiFdeY · 发表于 2017-11-6 08:21:39

感觉这个比较形象：stuffed tighter than a turkey

Littlebush · 发表于 2017-11-6 11:07:25

a sea of people我觉得比较贴切，a sea of作为一种量词结构在新闻中多有应用。

[语言讨论] 由“人山人海”来看 mountain & sea