act、bill、法案

klwo2 · 发表于 2019-10-28 01:56:05

本帖最后由 klwo2 于 2019-10-28 02:13 编辑

辞海1999:

法案
提交国家立法机关审议的法律草案。由享有立法提案权的机关或个人提出。法案一经通过，即成为法律，不能继续称之为“法案”。

现代汉语词典：

提交国家立法机关审查讨论的关于法律、法令问题的议案。

国语辞典：

政府向立法機關提出以備審議制定的法律草案。

喂鸡百科：

法案（英语：Bill）又称法律（草）案、条例（草）案，是法律在通过之前递交议会审议的形式，三读通过后即成为法律的一部分。在大部分政治体制中，法案还必须由行政首长或国家元首签署同意方能正式生效。如其不同意，可以运用否决权否决之；但部分国家或地区如议会再以绝大多数通过，法案即自动生效。

法案通过后即成为法律（英文Act或Law），对政府有约束力；而议案是议会要求政府进行某些行动的讨论案，没有约束力。即使议会通过了议案，政府也不一定要照办。

所以说「法案」本质是一个「草案」，讨论通过以后就不叫「法案」了。近现代辞源：

法案
提交国家立法机关审查讨论的关于法律、法令等问题的议案。1896年12月25日《时务报》：“近闻将开院，闻政府欲提森林法案于议会也。”1900年《清议报》四十六册《英国联邦法案》：“英国殖民大臣巴连氏，于下院提出联邦法案，求修正高等裁判权。”

是个西洋传过来的概念。既然是洋概念、洋现象，自然是西人说了算的，不关国粹什么事。

新牛津：

bill：

a draft of a proposed law presented to parliament for discussion
议案(提交议会讨论的法律草案):
a debate over the civil rights bill.
对民权法案的一场辩论。

元照英美法：

bill：

(4)议案；法案在英国议会惯例中，是指议会的法律草案，如果经两个议院通过并获得国王的批准，一项议案便成为议会法律。像法律一样，法案也分为公法案和私法案。如果法案具有地方性质，也涉及公共利益，虽有时被称为混合法案〔hybrid bills〕，却是一项公法案。

可以看出，「法案」的英文是bill、proposed law

再看看act，新牛津：

Law a written ordinance of Parliament, Congress, etc.
【律】(议会、国会等的书面)法令, 条例:
the 1989 Children's Act.
1989年《儿童法》。

元照英美法：

(2)法律；制定法
尤指由立法机关所制定的法律，与「制定法」〔statute〕同。

可以看出，act 跟「草案」一毛钱关系也没有，当然不可能是「法案」。随便去网上搜一下：https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-a-bill-a-law-and-an-act#：

In most countries around the world:—

A law is the generic term for any legal rule or regulation enforced by the government to regulate behaviour or activities in that society. The term can additionally mean a system of rules that are created and enforced by the government for the same purpose.

A Bill is proposed law — drafted by the government or by the lawmakers, to be debated and voted upon in the legislature, and if passed by that legislature, to be enacted into force by a certain constitutional procedure.

An Act is enacted legislation — the written law (the statute). The term ‘Act’ most usually means primary legislation — the principal statute enacted according to the lawmaking procedure by the legislature. Very often the Act will have secondary or delegated legislation (usually called “regulations” or “rules”) to finetune the operation of the Act.

清清楚楚。

然而悲剧出现了！

由于《远东英汉大辞典》率先犯错，把act说成了「法案」，导致连环惨剧，请看车祸现场：

妈妈呀，只说了「法案」两个字！

接下来犯错的就是我们的《英汉大词典》：

4. 法案；法令；敕命；条例；(法院的)判决
an act of Congress 国会法案
the Social Security Act 社会保障条例

千万别小看《英汉大词典》犯错的水平，这一条还有个雷人的「敕命」呐！（结果被21世纪大英汉喜滋滋地抄去了）——　好笑的是，陆谷孙《中华汉英大》（上）收了「敕命」，编汉英你怎么就知道「敕命」不等于act了？？！！

由于《远东英汉大辞典》、《英汉大词典》分别是两岸权威英汉词典，跟着他俩抄错的英汉、双解不计其数。下面给几本没犯错的好了：

三民英汉大词典：

英汉辞海：

看见没有，W3（英汉辞海的蓝本）明确指出要你对比这个词跟bill！

手头的《美国法律辞典》也没出错

顺便，上海外语教育出版社版新牛津双解没出错（所以上面给新牛津的解释），译文版牛津英汉双解却错了。实在罕见。

还有一批词典也没犯错，这些词典的特点是：出版于《远东英汉大辞典》之前，比如：

1908顏惠慶英華大辭典：

act

A decree, a law, 條例, 律, 法令; as, an act of Parliament, 議院條例

1866-69羅存德英華字典：

an act of legislature 一條例、定例

早期英汉词典基本上没在这里犯过错。快把「英華字典資料庫」mdx抱回家吧～

1927年商务印书馆《综合英汉大辞典》：

前面没错，pass the act 这个例子有点不好，也许act就是这样莫名其妙地跟「法案」扯上的？

由于act跟bill的区别在各大英汉词典里面都是错的，所以我是没看到哪本广告里说「专为中国人设计」的英汉词典好好辨析一下 ——自己都糊涂了还辨析个屁啊！

最雷人的，我留到最后面：

新世纪汉英大辞典：

法案　fǎ’àn
名　　act; bill; proposed law

妈妈呀！别家汉英词典再无能，也懂得抄北外汉英，老老实实只说「bill; proposed law」，绝不出错。您老人家这手笔，act 跟 bill 一夜间划上了等号啊！

喬治兄 · 发表于 2019-10-28 11:36:38

本帖最后由喬治兄于 2019-10-28 11:52 编辑

klwo2 发表于 2019-10-28 10:03
总统签字以前也可以是act

W3:

看見 klwo2 兄如此嚴謹治學, 小弟特別找了本 (The American Political Dictionary Fifth Edition) , Jack C. Plano / Milton Greenberg, ISBN: 0030450969
掃了4頁 OCR 一下, 或許有所幫助理解差異

圖片:
https://i.loli.net/2019/10/28/oqjmkY5d4G1yx3O.jpg
https://i.loli.net/2019/10/28/38YNEdUoRhgMIHn.jpg
https://i.loli.net/2019/10/28/8wiDj7aoh5ekgGO.jpg
https://i.loli.net/2019/10/28/qw4ft1J3dOyZBKl.jpg

Bill A proposed law. Most legislative proposals before Congress are in the form of bills. Mem-
bers of the House officially “introduce” bills by dropping them into a “hopper”; in the Senate,
bills are introduced by verbal announcement. All bills introduced during a two-year congressional
term are designated “HR” in the House and “S” in the Senate, with consecutive numbers assigned
in the order in which they are introduced in each chamber. Each bill must have three readings
in each house, be approved by a majority vote in each house, and, normally, be signed by the
President to become law. A bill passed in one house is called an “engrossed bill,” and the final
authoritative copy of a bill passed by both houses and signed by their presiding officers is called
an “enrolled bill.” Public bills deal with matters of general concern and may become public laws.
Private bills are concerned with individual matters and become private laws if approved. See also
BILL DRAFTING, page 161; PRIVATE BILL, page 182; READINGS, page 184.

Significance Thousands of bills are introduced into every Congress. They are drawn up by
pressure groups, interested citizens, congressional committees, individual congressmen, and by
members of the executive branch. Only members of Congress, however, can introduce bills in their
respective chambers. The great majority of these bills are killed because committees in either or

both houses do not act upon them. Some bills are concerned with new issues, but many public
bills enacted into law are amendments to existing laws. Technically, a bill passed by one house
is referred to in Congress as an “act,” but the term “act” is generally used to denote a bill passed
by both houses that becomes a new law.

Statute (Act) A law enacted by Congress or by a state legislature. Simple, concurrent, and
joint resolutions adopted by Congress are not considered statutes. Statutes take the form of public
and private laws and are numbered consecutively in each session of Congress. In Congress, a bill
passed by one house is called an “act,” but the term is generally used to describe a bill passed
by both houses that becomes a new law. See also bill, page 160; code, page 249.

Significance All acts of Congress are published first in the form of “slip laws” and are bound
after each session in the Statutes at Large of the United States. Those applicable today can be
found in the United States Code, which is revised every six years and supplemented annually. The
Code is organized on a subject-matter basis. State laws are published but not codified regularly.

oversky · 发表于 2019-10-31 19:52:16

本帖最后由 oversky 于 2019-10-31 19:53 编辑

https://www.trumanlibrary.gov/ed ... ry-government-terms
Dictionary of Government Terms

ACT - a measure which has become law after being passed by both houses of Congress and approved by the President, or passed by two-thirds vote over his veto.

BILL- a measure introduced in either house of Congress.

Public bill--a bill of broad general application.
Private bill--a bill for the benefit of one or a few individuals.

参议院网站有介绍几个法律术语之间的关系。
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/Laws_and_Acts_page.htm
When a bill is passed in identical form by both the Senate and the House, it is sent to the president for his signature. If the president signs the bill, it becomes a law. Laws are also known as Acts of Congress. Statute is another word that is used interchangeably with law.

When the president signs a law, the law receives a number in the order in which it is signed. A citation to a public law looks like this: P.L.107-101, where 107 indicates this law was passed during the 107th Congress, and 101 is the numerical designation it received. A private law is designated similarly, but uses the term private law instead of public law.

Public and private laws are printed as slip laws–which are single sheets or pamphlets containing the text of the law. At the end of each session of Congress, slip laws are compiled into a single volume called U.S. Statutes at Large.

Most laws are eventually incorporated into the U.S. Code.

winner_m538M · 发表于 2019-10-28 06:11:17

感谢k大分享，涨见识啦。

hnlsc · 发表于 2019-10-28 08:16:16

一直对法案和议案的英文，搞不懂，不少英汉和汉英，往往误导。多谢释义！！

oversky · 发表于 2019-10-28 09:51:48

三民实用英汉辞典的这个例句很有意思。
议会投票通过前是 bill (法案)，
总统签字公告后生效是 act (法律)，
那中间状态中英文要用那个辞？

我查了一下 veto, 大部份是搭配 bill

MWALD : a veto of a bill
LDOCE5 : President Bush vetoed the bill on July 6.

不過 SOED6 veto 的釋義這麼寫
A prohibition of a proposed or intended act, esp. a legislative enactment; the right or power of preventing an act in this way.

所以三民这例句 vetoed it 这个 it 是指前面的 the Act，似乎也可以？
现在再回到中文，因为还没公告生效成法律，所以 act 翻成法案？

woaini123 · 发表于 2019-10-28 09:55:07

act 是议会制定的法律，但议会的法律不一定就是国家正式颁布的法律吧 act 在网上各种正规资料里翻成法案的有很多啊，比如“1689年权利法案”。单抠这个字眼的话，不能翻成法案有点太绝对~~

klwo2 · 发表于 2019-10-28 10:03:53

oversky 发表于 2019-10-28 09:51
三民实用英汉辞典的这个例句很有意思。
议会投票通过前是 bill (法案)，
总统签字公告后生效是 act (法律 ...

总统签字以前也可以是act

W3:

act

3. often capitalized : the formal product of a legislative body : the formally declared will of a legislature the final requirement of which is usually the signature of the proper executive officer : statute
< an act of Congress >
sometimes : a decision or determination of a sovereign, a legislative council, or a court of justice : decree, edict, judgment, resolve, award — compare bill, ex post facto law, private law, public law IV

bill

3. : a draft of a law presented to a legislature for enactment : a proposed or projected law
< a new bill was set before Congress >
— compare act I 3, statute I

查询COCA可知，pass * bill 的词频远比pass * act 高，因为bill跟act相当于鸡蛋跟鸡的关系，只是偶尔说混，大部分时候还是泾渭分明的

klwo2 · 发表于 2019-10-28 10:41:14

woaini123 发表于 2019-10-28 09:55
act 是议会制定的法律，但议会的法律不一定就是国家正式颁布的法律吧 act 在网上各种正规资料里翻成法案 ...

“1689年权利法案”是Bill of Rights 1689啊

至于什么「正规资料」，难道《英汉大词典》不是正规资料？英汉大词典不准有错这种话还是省省

Daniel1931 · 发表于 2019-10-28 11:28:42

K大思维之精细详密, 甚为感佩.

woaini123 · 发表于 2019-10-28 12:45:17

klwo2 发表于 2019-10-28 10:41
“1689年权利法案”是Bill of Rights 1689啊

至于什么「正规资料」，难道《英汉大词典》不是正规资料？ ...

https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/16 ... 9%E6%B3%95%E6%A1%88

“《权利法案》，全称《国民权利与自由和王位继承宣言》（An Act Declaring the Rights and Liberties of the Subject and Settling the Succession of the Crown），是英国政治性法律中重要的一部法案，由威廉三世于1689年签署，威廉三世被宣布为“光荣革命”之后英国国王的前提就是必须接受由议会所提出的这部《权利法案》。”

可见这里议会提出的法案就叫 act。

oversky · 发表于 2019-10-28 12:57:33

英国国会网站上的用法

https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/passage-bill/commons/coms-royal-assent/

When a Bill has completed all its parliamentary stages in both Houses, it must have Royal Assent before it can become an Act of Parliament (law).

英国是御准之后才叫 Act

https://www.usa.gov/how-laws-are-made

https://lowenthal.house.gov/legislation/bill-to-law.htm

How A Bill Becomes A Law

美國的習慣用法是 law ，而不是用 act?

https://legis.wisconsin.gov/about/follow

To the Governor

When a bill has passed both houses, it’s sent to the governor, who may sign it or veto it. If it’s an ‘appropriations bill’, a bill for which state money is set aside, like the state budget, the governor may veto parts of the bill, and pass the rest. The legislature may override a veto, if two-thirds of both houses vote in favor of the bill. When the bill is passed, it becomes an act, and its changes are added into the statutes as law.
Acts and Law

Once a bill has been signed into law, it usually takes effect a few days later. Sometimes, the ‘effective date’ will be delayed, for instance, to give those effected time to prepare. Now that the act is in the statutes, it can be amended further, and the process starts again.

这里的 passed，应该是指州长签字后或议会再复决后。

klwo2 · 发表于 2019-10-28 13:16:11

woaini123 发表于 2019-10-28 12:45
https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/1689%E5%B9%B4%E6%9D%83%E5%88%A9%E6%B3%95%E6%A1%88

“《权利法案》， ...

你也算懂点英文的了，不会去看英文页面啊？

Bill of Rights 1689

Long title An Act Declaring the Rights and Liberties of the Subject and Settling the Succession of the Crown.

这样下去无法与你讨论

woaini123 · 发表于 2019-10-28 13:37:30

klwo2 发表于 2019-10-28 13:16
你也算懂点英文的了，不会去看英文页面啊？

Bill of Rights 1689

我知道“1689年权利法案”英文是Bill of Rights，但和这个全称指的同一个东西啊

klwo2 · 发表于 2019-10-28 15:22:13

woaini123 发表于 2019-10-28 13:37
我知道“1689年权利法案”英文是Bill of Rights，但和这个全称指的同一个东西啊 ...

这是「俗称」跟「全称」不匹配的问题。

the GI bill，俗称是bill，但全称是The Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944，本质仍然是「法」
Bill of Rights 1689，俗称是bill，但全称是An Act Declaring the Rights and Liberties of the Subject and Settling the Succession of the Crown，本质仍然是「法」

翻译成汉语到底说「法」还是「法案」，照字面儿说「法案」是可以的，但是照本质说「法」更正确。

「俗称」跟「全称」不匹配，并不影响act 跟bill 在大多数情况下泾渭分明。韦氏高阶：

a written description of a new law that is being suggested and that the lawmakers of a country, state, etc., must vote to accept before it becomes law

They will introduce an antismoking bill in Congress.
The Senate passed/rejected the bill.
How does a bill become a law?

also : such a bill after it has become a law
the GI bill
— see also bill of rights

我要说，作为通用辞书，韦氏高阶实在厉害，把这种边角的问题都注意到了，比牛津高阶、朗文强。当然了这里不是要跟专业法律辞书比

可惜翻译成英汉双解的时候，译者没有注意到韦氏高阶的苦心。
我发现这个问题还有人写论文呐，看附件：

-法案-还是-法--——从立法程序探讨Bill+of+Rights的中译名.pdf (1.52 MB, 下载次数: 8)

klwo2 · 发表于 2019-10-29 11:06:26

oversky 发表于 2019-10-28 09:51
三民实用英汉辞典的这个例句很有意思。
议会投票通过前是 bill (法案)，
总统签字公告后生效是 act (法律 ...

请一位好心人看了一下三民旗下的英汉词典

三民新知英漢、三民新英漢这两种在act条目下，不说「法案」，正确；
三民全球英漢、三民基礎英漢、三民實用英漢、三民廣解英漢、三民進階英漢、三民英漢大辭典均有错误的「法案」

基本上所有的三民词典都会在bill 条目下提醒act 是「法令」，结果跑到act条目下面有几本就糊涂了

从产品线上看，三民新知英漢、三民新英漢这两种似乎比其他的新，也许是新出版的改正了，不过三民進階跟三民新知是同一年出版的，主编都是宋美璍，一本正确，一本错误，很有意思。

oversky · 发表于 2019-10-29 11:56:49

klwo2 发表于 2019-10-29 11:06
请一位好心人看了一下三民旗下的英汉词典

三民新知是 1997 年出的，比进阶 2005 年早。
网站上写新知 2005 年是四刷版本。
新出的进阶反而有问题。

ルミナス英和辞典
act
http://dictionary.kenkyusha.co.jp/pc/cmd.jsp/honmon?book=lumi_eiwa&id=A004260
2 [しばしば A-] 法令, 条例《議案 (bill) が国会で可決されたもの》; (裁判所･議会などの)裁決, 決議.

三民进阶

klwo2 · 发表于 2019-10-29 12:38:54

oversky 发表于 2019-10-29 11:56
三民新知是 1997 年出的，比进阶 2005 年早。
网站上写新知 2005 年是四刷版本。
新出的进阶反而有问题。 ...

你是想说，三民進階的蓝本没有问题，翻译过来出错了？

喬治兄 · 发表于 2019-10-29 12:55:23

klwo2 发表于 2019-10-29 11:06
请一位好心人看了一下三民旗下的英汉词典

klwo 兄已經 Read between the lines.
一般人大都閉著眼睛就過去了

這好比把數學公式親自導一遍
沒親自導一遍公式去是很難發現箇中是否錯誤和微細差異
佩服, 佩服

oversky · 发表于 2019-10-29 13:17:16

klwo2 发表于 2019-10-29 12:38
你是想说，三民進階的蓝本没有问题，翻译过来出错了？

可能吧。不过网站上的是二版，三民翻译用的是一版，要再看日文一版确认才知道。

klwo2 · 发表于 2019-10-29 14:04:58

oversky 发表于 2019-10-29 13:17
可能吧。不过网站上的是二版，三民翻译用的是一版，要再看日文一版确认才知道。 ...

我不懂日文，不过从这里看：

https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/act

日文辞书似乎没有把「act」说成「法案」的传统，都只说「法」（日语有「法案」一词）

为何翻译过来就走样了，大概译者的心目中，要么「法案」就是法，不去查国语辞典；要么他们手边都是别的英汉辞书，直接搬运过来了

ucccafe · 发表于 2019-11-1 20:43:38

就是譯者隨意依個人想法，私自的改編原意。
簡單來說，一些自稱學者的就是混到底的垃圾。

大橙子 · 发表于 2019-12-2 16:06:27

本帖最后由大橙子于 2019-12-2 16:26 编辑

这大概又是一个【舶来的概念与常用来翻译该概念的汉语词实际所指并不一致】的例子吧……bill 和 act 在英语里意思是泾渭分明的，但”法案“这个词在普通中国人心中并没有”草案“的意思，相反，”案“这个字给人一种庄重感，和”法令“”条例“之类的比起来，”法案“可能还更有正式的法律感一些。
虽然现汉等辞书在释义中用了”草案“一词，但这个只是对应 act 做的定义。
中国的汉语使用实践中，根本就没有这种【供讨论的法案 vs 已通过的法律】的对立区分！
每次两会的时候，新闻一般是说”提案““议案”，几乎不会把这种提案称为“法案”。在通过什么法律之前，会出台“法律草案”，也不会说成“法案”。
“法案”几乎只用来翻译国外经过议会讨论通过成为法律的那个东西，那个东西在通过前叫 bill，通过后叫 act，而汉语中，不管通过前通过后一般都翻译成“法案”。
这才是这个词在汉语中的实际运用情况……
跟楼主上次说的 demonstration 其实有点类似，一般中国人根本不知道世界上还存在表示支持的 demonstration，怎么可能翻译出这层意思？

[词典考据] act、bill、法案

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